Meet Rep. Jim Nielson of Utah’s 19th Legislative District

I met Rep. Jim Nielson during a town-hall meeting.  Self effacing and intent, he was just as quick to listen to my questions and thoughts as he was to share his. It’s a refreshing change from a lot of politicians who seem more interested on in their opinions.

Rep. Nielson doesn’t waste time on fluff or message bills. This year he’s proposing a change to the Utah Constitution that would protect the revenues from natural resources from raiding by hungry politicians for short-term needs. I like that it protects the great mineral wealth in Utah for future generations and maximizes our assets. I found Rep. Nielson to be like that about everything–thoughtful, considerate, and smart.

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You are in your first term in the legislature?

It is my first. It’s going well. I’ve no complaints.

But I understand that you are not the first in your family to serve in the Utah House: rumor has it that your father was once Speaker.

Dad was speaker of the house here in Utah, Howard Nielson, from 1973-74. He was also a US Congressman for 8 years, then after my parents served a couple of missions, he served one term in Utah Senate.

Ah…that Howard Nielson.

Yes. That’s my dad.

It sounds like you’ve got a long tradition of politics in the family. So, other than family, before even the legislature, how did you get started in politics?

Well, if you exclude family, that changes it a little bit, [chuckles] but family was a key part of it. I was knocking on doors in when I was in second grade. “Hi, please vote for my dad!” Going door to door and meeting and getting to know people is in my blood. It’s always been something I’ve enjoyed doing.

Shortly after Reagan was elected and I was just out of college. I went back to Washington and worked in the Reagan Administration in US Department of Education for six years first under T. H. Bell and then under Bill Bennett . I had already seen how things worked in the legislative branch, so I was able to get experience in the executive branch as well. Working in a large organization like the federal government is useful and educational in so many ways and in more things than just politics.

It sounds educational. Anything else you learned there in DC?

I remember learning, and it was a disappointment to me, that even the boldest politicians, the boldest adherents to a strong political philosophy, tend to be very timid, tend to cover their bases, The example that sticks out in my mind is when we were working on a privatization of a the college housing loan portfolio that the federal government held. They were low interest loans from fifties and sixties that had helped to build campuses. We felt we should privatize them because the loans weren’t performing, mostly because no one was making payments, and the government wasn’t very good at managing them. The loans would be better managed by people who knew how to manage them, people who had experience managing loans. We sought and got Congressional approval to privatize the whole portfolio, but the language that came down from the committee was ambiguous about what we were allowed to privatize. Being young was and idealistic, a few of my colleagues and I thought of our authority as quite a broad. But the idea didn’t get very far past our group. Administration attorneys and policy folks who exercised an abundance of caution got their hands on it and slowed it down dramatically, then even diminished what we could do.

It was an interesting lesson about how much timidity there was in even the boldest of political movements. It’s difficult to move fast and decisively.

Have you seen this happen as a legislator?

There’s no doubt that I have, at least as a general matter. There’s something to be said for “measure twice, cut once,” but effective, decisive action is rare. It’s definitely in short supply.

Where have you seen this in the Utah legislature?

When I draft a piece of legislation, there is an abundance of discussion. The common response is “with a few more years of review…” Have you read “Blink”?

By Malcolm Gladwell?

Yeah. It’s that idea. You can always study this stuff more, but sometimes a quick expert appraisal and a solid decision based on that appraisal is just as valid of a three year study which adds the opportunity cost of not doing the right thing in the first place.

People want to have the idea themselves, feel important, find a need and solution, and see value and then move. Too much study can get in the way of good policy.

Let’s shift a bit. What do you do for a day job?

I’m an architect. Most the time I’m the facilitator, the team leader. I often leave design work to others. I used to do more projects in higher education, but since entering the legislature, I am focusing more in private work. Past projects include the UVU Library, the Sutton Building at the University of Utah, and the new Agriculture Building at USU. Projects where I’ve been the designer include the Barlow building at the DATC in Kaysville and the Missionary Services Building at the Missionary Training Center in Provo.

What might surprise people in your wallet?

Hmm…that’s an interesting question. I have an old clipping from the newspaper that I carry, a paragraph from the Salt Lake Tribune from several years ago. It describes the political motivation for people who feel that their way of life is threatened. It said that people who feel that their way of life is threatened will always have more motivation than those who are just trying to advance a political agenda.

I thought it was insightful into why certain interest groups are more effective than their numbers or finance might suggest. Belief that we should do X is not nearly as motivating as losing a way of life.

Do you have a favorite vacation?

That has to be camping at Tony Grove, up in Logan Canyon.

What is the last book you read or that you have on the proverbial nightstand?

The last book I read was “The Devil in the White City.”

Is that the one about the World’s Fair?

Yes, in 1896 in Chicago. It’s about a mass murderer that was loose in the area at the same time. It’s a history, but reads like a novel, and it’s incredibly beautifully written. Terrifying and gripping. Most terrifying was realizing that it was a true account, that it really happened.

Also known as the Columbian Exposition, the Fair was breathtaking. The book looks at the influence the Fair had on our nation’s development. It was the first widespread application of distributed electricity. Actually, it was a big decision about whether to use on alternating or direct current, and since alternating current was used, it set the standard and changed history.

Another thing talked about is one of the plasterers who worked on the amazing infrastructure. His last name was Disney, and he had a son named Walt. He would come home and talk about the dream world he was helping create. That had to have had an influence on Walt Disney in his early years.

Where did you grow up? What was the most mischief you got into before you were twelve?

I grew up in Provo. I don’t know if I dare say what mischief I got into, but my older brother dragged me out after curfew. We got picked up by police, for curfew charges or whatever, and my parents had to bring us home at two or three in the morning.

Really, though, it was my older brother’s fault.

Of course. But no record, right?

Right.

How about: what was your proudest moment before you were eighteen?

I received a scholarship when I was 15 to attend a boys camp in upstate New York. I spent two months with kids from all over the world. I was thrilled at the opportunity. I had the chance to interact with sixty boys from all over the world, learning about their cultures. It was incredible, especially for a kid from Provo. They were from every possible religion, culture, and background. It was fantastic.

College?

BYU for my undergrad and the University of Oregon for my graduate degree. If you know anything about Eugene, it’s as far from Provo as you could get, culturally speaking. I tell people that on average I went to the University of Utah for both degrees. [chuckles]

Favorite Local Restaurant?

The Mandarin in Bountiful.

James Bond or Mission: Impossible?

Bond. Unless you are talking the old Mission Impossible TV. show…that’s another story.

Which actor?

Timothy Dalton.

Wife’s favorite flower?

Iris.

Leno, Letterman, or Conan?

I miss Conan…and I don’t see him anymore since I don’t have cable. So, Leno.

I can empathize: I’m with Team Coco. Pets?

I got tired of burying my daughters gerbils. Finally, I asked our youngest girl if she wanted another one, and she said ‘no.’ It’s just too hard to keep burying them.

Why are you a Republican?

I was raised a Republican, and that is a key factor. Family has an important impact on what you believe. I believe that government is not the solution, that the private sector and the free market are going to be more responsive to the needs of people in most things, and that government should be limited to allow and enable the market to work. It’s my opinion that the Republican Party comes closer in its platform to a description of the proper role of government than any other party.

What legislation are you working on right now?

I am working on one that I think will be controversial. I’m on a tax committee that has been looking at tax policies closely. We have in Utah a permanent trust fund where the voters said our severance taxes (taxes based on anything we pull from the ground—oil, coal, etc. It’s “severed” from its natural state, so “severance taxes”) should be deposited above a certain levels. None of these resources are renewable, so severance taxes are a non-renewable tax source. It doesn’t come from an unlimited supply. Once the oil and gas is used up, it’s gone. Hence, the idea of a trust fund. The idea is to use the interest, but not spend the principal, and provide a benefit to future generations.

Here’s the problem: the Utah constitution says that to take any money out of the fund, three-quarters of both houses and governor must pass off on it, which is intended to make it hard to access. It’s supposed to be a permanent fund, only the interest being available as ongoing revenues. There’s only one case in last fifteen to twenty years where money has been taken out of the fund to satisfy current budget requirements.

Here’s kicker, though: the legislature by a simple majority, can divert before money headed into the fund Today virtually all of the money is diverted before it goes in. I’m running a constitutional amendment that will require every dollar to go into the trust fund. The severance money must go straight into the fund with no money diverted.

We have to think of the trust fund money as one time money, not on-going money. Instead of a $50M structural deficit this year, it is actually $127M deficit because of the severance taxes that belong in the permanent trust fund. I think we are spending our children’s inheritance. We need to store it for future generations.

And it will be in a form of amendment to the Utah constitution?

Right. Otherwise, it won’t it doesn’t have any teeth. Statute can easily be changed anytime by majority vote. That’s why it won’t be easy to pass. It’ll be challenged because it takes money out of general fund.

Anyway, it’s probably the most significant thing I’m working on. It will have something like a $77M fiscal note, which is significant.

How do you think it’ll do?

It’s a real challenge. It may need to be phased in.

These funds should not be used as ongoing revenues, but only to add to the principal. That’s my deal. I actually only heard of it in the last year, last March, when I realized we had this fund that should not be a rainy day fund, but a tornado fund (much more serious weather than just rain). It was something that I decided that I wanted to pursue, and I’ve been working on it since.

Best of luck with that. Let me know how it goes.

Sure thing.

You’ve been more than generous with your time. Thanks for chatting tonight, Representative. It’s been good.

Thank you, Dan.

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